So, Sarah Palin managed to knock weeklong news reports about Michael Jackson’s death, reminiscent of Saturday Night Live’s running gag about Generalissimo Franco, and the usual compelling Obamessiah stories ranging from his upcoming slap-in-the-face trip to Africa to his predilection for proper name pronunciation, right off the front pages on what’s usually a slow news dump day by announcing her resignation as Alaska’s governor, out of the clear blue. And, to tell you the truth, it pissed me off.
After spending most of yesterday researching and composing what I consider to be a rather interesting, and certainly lengthy, post, I finally managed to publish the damned thing, only to find myself scooped by Palin’s news. What’s up with that, Sarah P.?
Dang that woman!
I mean, really! And, to make bad matters worse, it forces me to admit something sure to put me at odds with my fellow PUMAs. I really don’t care.
Now, I know that to march in lockstep with my anti-Obite sisters and brothers, I should be up in arms over this latest development, but I’m not. Frankly, I don’t even understand the overabundance of SarahLove I see daily in the PUMAsphere. She’s okay and all, and, I certainly respect her pluck in the face of the manufactured adversity she’s had to endure since Day One from the right and left, whether such controversies and attacks were personal or political in nature, but…well, that’s about it. I’m not all emotionally invested like some of my colleagues seem to be about it, though.
Frankly, I find the “support Palin because she’s a woman” stance so many advocate so passionately to be puzzling, and, to tell you the truth, a little hypocritical. The same factions who so adamantly denounced African American support for Obama based solely on skin color, seem all too willing to devote themselves to Palin simply on the basis of gender. I didn’t buy that crap when it was pushed on me about “voting for the brother,” and I won’t buy it on feminist grounds regarding Palin. Seems to me there’s a difference between a willingness to defend any woman against sexist attacks and misogyny, and full-fledged political support for someone whose policies you can’t endorse.
That being said, ya gotta love her flair for the dramatic. Even if it is, apparently, at least somewhat misguided. By announcing her resignation in the manner she did, she assures herself of continued, even more intense, scrutiny and speculation. Not only because her speech raised far more questions than it provided answers, but because she did it on a weekend when reporters, some still smarting from rather negative press themselves, have nothing better to do.
With the Washington Post coming under attack for trying to establish themselves as a lobbying conduit for the Obministration, and pick up a couple of bucks for themselves in the process, to the Huffington Post’s desperate-for-validation-as-a-viable news source participation as plant in a stage-managed press conference, to Helen Thomas and Chip Reid’s curious expressions of outrage in their double-team smackdown of Robert Gibbsmeabreak over planted questions at Obie’s healthcare townhall, (tee hee) since it was hardly the first time such a thing has happened on the mainstream media-fueled Obama Love Train, nor was it the most brazen example of longtime unethical journalistic willingness to prostitute itself as Obama’s bedmate, the wounded press corp is gonna have a field day on Palin’s self-exposed hide.
Already speculation is rampant as to what Palin’s resignation really means, as if, it means she quits is simply not enough information in and of itself. Is there a scandal a-brewin’, they ask? If so, quitting without confessing, or explaining, is unlikely to mitigate the potential damages. Is she setting herself up for a 2012 presidential run, which puts her in league with Obama’s purported 11th dimensional chess on Pluto propensity, given that walking out on the job without explanation is hardly ever a good thing to highlight on one’s resume. So, unless she’s got some heavy backing and support already lined up and tucked into her back pocket, it’s hard to see how this latest move helps her presidential aspirations, if indeed, she has any.
Some have said her resignation makes women look bad, as if it validates the “we’re too weak to handle the pressure” criticism that has been leveled against working women probably since caveman days. The same kind of logic that makes some men question our capabilities periodically, when we’re feeling down, as presidential candidates and Supreme Court nominees, probably lead Neanderthals to assume we wouldn’t be able to hunt, or otherwise pull our weight around the campfire. Maybe that’s why they’re extinct, and their more enlightened sister species, us Homo Sapiens thrived. Men of our kind have always expected us to do our share and more, they’ve just always demanded all the credit for it.
Whatever the case, whether it’s the befuddlement over her motives in general, or the continuing multi-source demand for a colonoscopic probe into her email records, or the left/right debate over the truth of an impending embezzlement scandal, or, all the allegations of ethics violations, maybe the soon-to-be-former governor is just sick of ridiculously vile Palin Derangement Syndrome shit thrown at her and her family. Who could blame her if she just wants out?
Does make you wonder what they’re gonna do without her, though.
Well I am just happy to find a corner of the pumasphere where it’s safe to say that quitting an elected post to campaign for another elected post is hardly an endorsement. This DOES qualify her as a quitter, and I do not see any reason to support her simply because she is a woman. (Having said that, I know – we don’t know if she will try to run for POTUS. I’m just sayin’.)
“Frankly, given the sort of ‘that Lesbian castrating bitch who killed Vince Foster’ type of abuse Hillary took, stood and fought, and very nearly overcame without the kind of ‘rally round Sarah’ support Palin seems to be generating, this ‘poor lttle Palin’ shit pisses me off.” – Cinie
THANK YOU! And let’s remember that she DID overcome it and actually won the popular vote. The way Hillary stood and fought, with her jaw set, and her game-face on embedded her in my heart forever.
There is no comparison between these two women whatsoever. Thanks for posting this, Cinie!
Oh, and don’t worry, the new gossip about Palin is that she resigned because of her lesbian affair — check out feministing if you don’t believe me.
Oh no, Sarah’s resignation had NOTHING to do with sexism. As someone else said, if you don’t want to see it, you won’t.
It would be a lot easier to see if, 1.) Palin was making such claims, and 2.) if a link was provided since I saw no such lesbian allegations at feministing.
Angie, you are assuming facts not in evidence and giving the evidence there is weight it doesn’t deserve. As I said, or tried to, Bill Clinton, and every other politician who ever threatened somebody else’s status quo has been hounded and harassed nine ways to Sunday. Gender had nothing to do with it. Yes, Palin posed such a threat, and threats must be nullified if you are the one being threatened, so yes, the Obama machine unleashed all barrels against her. Still, that’s not because she’s a female, it’s because the Obama machine brooks threat from no quarter. Remember what he did to Blair Hull and Jack Ryan. There’s something potentially very damaging to women to allow this “Palin-in-distress” meme to flourish, especially in light of the fact that she quit, giving fuel to the “weaker sex” fire. Just because the Republican machine didn’t back her up like Obama does Kaine, pretty much insulating him from similar attack, doesn’t mean all her woes are the result of blatant sexism. Some things are political, some are personal, there’s a difference.
All politicians face frivolous lawsuits and questions of ethics violations, some bogus, some not. Even the dreaded Obama has had a few. Groups like Judicial Watch have no other reason to exist, do they? Palin’s media treatment was nowhere near the abuse Bill Clinton took on the campaign trail last year, imo, and the cries of racism against him were equally bogus. Also, the Obamaniacs went after Blago hammer and tongs, and he’s been fighting allegations since he’s been in office, though from what I can tell, nothing he’s been accused of is anything that Obama couldn’t be charged with, too.
Yes, Palin was a victim of misogyny, and that should be denounced by everyone, feminists included. But, most of the negativity she faced is the same sort any politician with the temerity to step onto the big stage and expect to shake things up would. Those type of things are the reasons she credits for quitting, the politics-as-usual things, not the over-the-top, out of line, baseless hatred spewed at her and her family. Frankly, given the sort of “that Lesbian castrating bitch who killed Vince Foster” type of abuse Hillary took, stood and fought, and very nearly overcame without the kind of “rally round Sarah” support Palin seems to be generating, this “poor little Palin” shit pisses me off.
Cinie — I’m not assuming facts not in evidence as I clearly stated, several times that this was “in my view” or that it “made me feel.”
Oh, and don’t worry, the new gossip about Palin is that she resigned because of her lesbian affair — check out feministing if you don’t believe me.
Cinie — I’m sorry that you have found yourself having to play defense here. I respect your opinion on Palin & I enjoy your writing & your point of view. However, I think there is a major mis-communication re: Palin because many people simply do not want to or are unable to separate her politics from her personally. A lot of people “care” about her resignation because a lot of women, myself included, view the treatment of Palin in the msm & the blogosphere as a “straw that broke the camel’s back” in terms of the vile sexist attacks on her, following as they did the ones on Hillary (and the rigged nomination process). It seems, at least to me, that her resignation is a result of her basically being “run out of office.” When she was picked as the VP nominee, her rating approval in Alaska was 94%. I firmly believe the drop in her approval rating is a direct result of the sexist attacks that have been generated against her. And yes, I do see those 15 frivolous (and dismissed) ethics complaints as a direct result of the ginned up hatred of her by the msm & the Obots. It is a total mob “burn the witch” mentality. But when I try to say this all of a sudden I’m countered with “Yes, the sexist attacks are wrong, but she is a pro-lifer! And she doesn’t believe in same-sex marriage.” Besides the fact that one has absolutely nothing to do with the other, it is as if there is a revisionist history going on, at least to my mind. The meme seems to be “Don’t support sexism, but don’t be too concerned about Palin being run out of office on a rail, because she kind of deserves it being a right-winger and all.” The fact is, Palin’s view are not that different from a lot of members of the GOP and, in fact, from a lot of members of the Dems. I keep coming back to this: Why is it that she is facing this onslaught of hatred & having to spend $500k defending bogus ethic complaints & Tim Kaine (a pro-lifer against same-sex marriage) isn’t? In my mind that is only because she is a woman who threatened to “steal the thunder” of Obama & must, therefore, be destroyed. Yet, when I do defend her against sexism people are quick to accuse me of defending her conservative positions. It is a vicious cycle. So, the question of why we “care” about Palin’s resignation is because this women’s political career has literally been destroyed by sexism. Her drop in approval was not because she was a pro-lifer — she was a pro-lifer when she had a 94% approval rating. The ethics complaints are not because she is against same-sex marriage — she was against same-sex marriage when she was elected. I’m NOT defending her pro-life or gay marriage positions, but it is obvious to me that her resignation has nothing to do with those political views & everything to do with the fact that she is a woman who went to public school to boot. I cannot be happy about or not care about that happening to any woman, regardless of whether I agree with her politically.
that was great, all. Cinie, did you really spend all day 4th of July at your computer?
Yes, and I’ve been completely depressed ever since.
I’m about where you are on this, regarding her actual views, especially on choice…but she also hasn’t been out to actively change things. However, the continued Christian pandering still bugs me, like it does with any of the GOP…
Frankly, I’d rather she quit the GOP and really stop the “politics as usual”…and, her dig at the “liberal” court in her exit speech sort of is “politics as usual,” isn’t it?
And if Rush gives her a huge hug as the savior of conservatism it may doom her with indies and the center…We’ll have to see…
Cinie, thanks for this post. it needed to be said. I am sorry so many are willing to attack you personally. But telling the truth sometimes leads others to that mentality.
Also, thank you for the link to the npr broadcast at the widdershins. Femball! Please do a post on it! I would love to cross post, if you allow.
Phylis Schlafly…Swell rolling eyes. Gaaawwwww-dddd!!!
Wow is right. Cinie, if you don’t see the link between sexism and all the ethics complaints (trumped up by Obama’s thugs from what I understand), then I’m not sure that you WANT to see. Considering every one of the complaints has been disproven, and considering the source, how can anyone not see the deliberate effort to tear her down? How can anyone not see how that is directly related to sexism, especially in this most vicious election cycle we’ve just experienced?? It isn’t a gigantic leap to see the connection to her resignation when she specifically mentioned the ethics lawsuits in her resignation speech!
What do ethics probes have to do with sexism? And, by the way, this is the subject I’m researching now, you might want to take a look, up to you. Also, just for giggles, my new motto is, never forget Phylis Schlafly.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95521909
The ethics probes were all disproven and were brought forth for no other reason than to bring her down…because of the hatred felt for her by so many…due in large part to the fact she is a woman…sexism.
They were brought for the same reason so many other politicians face them, politics. How many has Bill Clinton had brought against him?
It’s a separate issue if you say it is, I guess, it’s your blog. I get that you’re trying to make your point, win your argument counselor. If you go back almost a year ago, when she stepped out onto the stage, she stole the show from Obama immediately and invigorated McCain’s campaign. Obama was touted as The One who would bring the masses to overflow crowds here, and across the globe. Here was a “woman” stealing his thunder and a huge threat. She had populace appeal and could possibly galvanize disenfranchised women, aka, Hillary voters. She was instantly attacked in sexist and misogynist ways. They weakened her but she kept fighting. She lost, and they kept attacking, why? Because she continued to be a threat to the great and powerful Oz. The ethics complaints per se were not sexist, but they were piling on and trying to overwhelm her, keep her on the defensive. Concurrently, the sexist comments were repeated on blogs and in the MSM. Her record distorted and of course the abortion arguments abound! Hide your uterus, Sarah wants to control it…..ooooooo…be afraid, be very afraid!!!! So, okay Cinie, her final statement did not mention sexism, you win! Cuz if she had, like Hillary, you would have heard the cries from all the corners of the internets and MSM……”SHE’S PLAYING THE VICTIM CARD, THE C@NT!!!!”
Wow. Just, wow.
Bravo! A threat to OZ must be managed into oblivion… ToTo, that hot wind out of Kansas can’t POSSIBLY have met a cold front from the North, eh? Storm brews.
Yep, just look at the comments, say on Huffington Post under this same topic. Those people passed deranged, and are headed to rabid frothing at the mouth. To be honest they are trained to behave this way, Attack! Attack! the Left just provides the Target. The problem with the lunatic fringe, and feeding it, they have a way of turning off the Moderates.
Obama has stated, Stop attacking the Moderates, we need them to pass my legislation. Who knows if they are ACORN, and not say mentally challenged Obots, as their comments seem to appear especially hateful. If they were just ACORN drones, Obama could just turn the spigot off, and not have to beg them to quit. I also wonder how many of the extreme Palin Derangement comments are coming from inside our country?
I’m not arguing, just restating my point, which was apparently, unclear. I said nothing about voting for her or supporting her as a candidate, I merely said her resignation was relevant to the sexism and misogyny that was witnessed with first with Hillary and as such, if we care about those issues, we should care that Sarah Palin resigned.
Her resignation is her personal choice. She herself has not said that sexism and misogyny drove her from office. Her reasons remain ambiguous. The ethics allegations were politically motivated, not sexist, and she seems to give those reasons more weight than the negative treatment of the press. As I said, we can denounce the unwarranted attacks on her family and womanhood without wishful thinking her into a supportable candidate. Her resignation is a separate issue.
I don’t remember equating the misogyny to “automatic support of all her decisions”. I’m saying that regardless of whether you support her as a candidate, we should support her as a woman who has endured massive sexist and misogynistic attacks rather than any real criticism of her record or policies. As far as your comparison with criticism of Obama, oh please…..if anyone had said anything near what has been said about Palin about His Holiness….they’d either be in jail, or dead. The stuff about Palin and her family goes beyond even what I’ve seen about Hillary, and that saying a lot. By the way, she has fought, and she is still fighting,t the sad part is that she has to…oh yeah, she’s a threat to The One, can’t have a woman out shine The One.
Maybe you should read my post and comments. I’ve said I do not condone the vile, sexist attacks on Palin and her family. So, what are we arguing about?
So you find no connection with Sarah Palin resigning and sexism? The two events are completely unrelated? Or you don’t care about sexism? Or both? I’ve read only a tiny fraction of the vile, vulgar, misogynistic comments made on the internet and MSM and I am completely disgusted and angry. You don’t have to agree with her politics to agree that sexist, misogynist attacks against her, her daughters and the completely disgusting attacks on her baby Trig need to stop. I have two young daughters, one who is also handicapped and am worried for their future in a society that would not only propagate, but condone that behavior, seriously worried.
Yes. Palin has given no concrete reasons for resigning, only hints. Yes, she mentioned the attacks, as well as the investigations, etc. She has given few hints as to what she’s going to do, and where she’s going to go. She did not say she was resigning to protect her family, she said her family agreed she could work for change outside the governor’s office. How can you champion a person who won’t stand and fight? And, how can you honestly equate not condoning misogyny against a woman, with automatic support for all her decisions, and by extension, her candidacy, which she hasn’t even declared? You’re equating things that are in no way similar. It smacks of “all criticism of Obama is racist,” and I don’t like it at all.
The sexist attacks against Sarah and HIllary were blatant. What these two campaigns revealed was that the misogyny in our culture still runs deep. The resignation of Sarah Palin is relevant, and should matter to all of us.
It doesn’t make me want to vote for her, or care whether she quits her job.
This is the new feminism puma’s must get on board with, NOT:
Sarah in her own words:
Even Sarah Palin doesn’t think you should be voting based on gender:
Sarah Palin is not just talkin the talk, she is also walkin the talk. For those of you who need proof regarding her stance on gay marriage, I put this forth for your perusal.
Sarah Palin in her own words:
Palin Breaks With McCain On Gay Marriage Ban
“I am, in my own, state, I have voted along with the vast majority of Alaskans who had the opportunity to vote to amend our Constitution defining marriage as between one man and one woman. I wish on a federal level that that’s where we would go because I don’t support gay marriage,” Palin said.
“I’m not going to be out there judging individuals, sitting in a seat of judgment telling what they can and can’t do, should and should not do, but I certainly can express my own opinion here and take actions that I believe would be best for traditional marriage and that’s casting my votes and speaking up for traditional marriage that, that instrument that it’s the foundation of our society is that strong family and that’s based on that traditional definition of marriage, so I do support that.”
When the federal marriage amendment was being debated in 2004, John McCain broke from his party’s leadership and took to the Senate floor to denounce it in notably stark language.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/20/politics/fromtheroad/entry4531945.shtml
And I would like to know what liberal minded person could think this is OK????
“Where she was going … has always been up to the GOP… there isn’t Dem and GOP , there are the elites and they are one: Palin need not apply.”
Party Unity My Ass ain’t just a Democrat’s conclusion. Plenty of traditional Republicans are saying that very same thing! PUMA could just as easily stand for “Please! Understand; Middle America. The two parties have made themselves entities that answer to no law, have removed the BiPartisan League of Women Voters from their traditional role in the debates, facilitated their monopolistic trust and have veered to the polar extremes where MOST people who faithfully vote aren’t comfortable. The Palins recognized that the MSM couldn’t run their game on them if they didn’t permit it. Adios, Peace o’ me goes. New Game.
MadamaB, your argument that misogyny abates with more representative representation gender-wise is intuitive, and really doesn’t need scientific backup. Who’s arguing with that? It’s the kind of common sense argument for which validation seems superfluous. It would also follow that the same would be true of other under-represented groups, with only the threshold number being variable. The question is, are quotas, and voting for women for the sake of being women, the best way to achieve that parity? I don’t think it is. You do. There really doesn’t seem to be much more to it than that.
Pips – You are right – it is 18 out of 22 of the countries that have reached 30% and beyond, which have quotas. A multi-party electoral system is another way in which women have been able to gain representation in a given country. Often the country in question has both.
Do the women who run for office in Denmark have to put up with the craziness that Hillary and Sarah Palin had to? From what I understand, Danish society evolved past that level quite some time ago.
As the “forriner” who doesn’t have a pie in the fight (or whatever
), living in Denmark where we have 8 parties represented in the Parliament, it’s hard for me to imagine what it would be like, having in effect only two parties to choose from.
For what it’s worth, during my “career” as a voter I have voted for almost every party available, the far right excluded. I am at heart a Social Democrat, but never the less have never voted for the party! Either the nominees didn’t appeal to me, or the rare person who did wasn’t eligible in my district.
I have voted for a person on the far left (not quite communist) for the city counsil, because I believed him to be the best man for the job – which he also proved to be when elected – and I have deliberately vasted my vote (when no one better was on the ballot), voting for a person who had no chance to be elected, but whom I wanted to show my support.
Our Social Democrats now has a female leader, who in many ways have a similar story to Obama’s: Young, “a breath of fresh air”, inexperienced, sure of herself, incoherent without a manuscript … and I could never vote for her, even though she could become our first female PM! What’s the point, if I don’t trust her capacity?
We don’t have quotas, but still the female representation in our Parliament is about 40%! And let me add there are some mighty fine, strong, smart young women among them – even Muslim 2. generation Danes!
Well, I think Sarah is outie. The VF hit piece on her was perpetrated by Steve Schmidt, one of the prime movers and shakers in the GOP.
Where she was going or not, and even how much media heat she gets, has always been up to the GOP. They have spoken. Really at a certain level there isn’t Dem and GOP , there are the elites and they are one: Palin need not apply. I frankly think she was picked as McCain’s VP in order to help sink her and so a male would not be stuck with the loss they knew was coming.
get ready for Obama’ 2nd term
Actually, Cinie, I think a vote is far better extended to someone whom you believe has character, not based on whether or not they jibe with you on all or most policy issues. No one is ever going to support all of “our issues” whichever they are. I am more comfortable supporting Sarah Palin with whom I disagree on some issues because I believe she has character and integrity and bases her decisions on thoughtful reflection even if she makes a decision that I don’t agree with personally. A stooge like John Kerry might be on the “right” side of the abortion issue and toe the oh-so Democratic, liberal line and yet he can take a sexist swipe at Palin and flex his puny misogyny for no good reason and knock women down another notch. And yet isn’t he a”qualified candidate who supports our issues.”? Frankly, there are woefully few men who actually support us as equals much less our issues (rhymes with tissues.)
I love your posts, Cinie, but I think with this one you are comparing apples and oranges, the African-American experience to the experience of women cross-culturally and worldwide. God bless the women of the world.
First of all, it’ hard to see how walking out on your job in the middle of it is a sign of character. Secondly, I’m not sure what John Kerry has to do with anything, but, I’ve got to tell you, if it came down to Kerry/Palin,and one candidate threatened to overturn Roe, and the other vowed to protect it, it would be purt’ near impossible for me to vote for the one who wanted to abolish it.
Lastly, how is comparing the struggles of disenfranchised people “apples and oranges?” Especially considering that I’m both.
Because one disenfranchised group has now attained the status of having one of its members in the White House and the other (which btw represents the MAJORITY of our population) doesn’t!
And, how’s that working out for you?
It’s not working out for me. I’m pissed. That’s why I will be voting for the woman from here on out! That’s what I’m saying, Cinie. Up until this past election, it never was about that. I always voted on the issues. Numbers/percentages be damned. Identity be damned. No longer.
yeah, i’m pretty much with you on that cinnie. I respect the bold move she made, i think she’s pretty bad-ass, but i’m not a ga-ga over her because I really don’t know that much about her politically, only that she is conservative, and i know little else. I also am not clear on her accomplishments, etc. *shrug*. I am highly conflicted on how I feel about her becoming president, but i know that i am not as focused on her as so many are. I have faith that they know the fight is important, and more power to them for supporting her so heartily, but the instant bandwagon jumping is not for me.
True. I would have liked to have been given more legitimate political information on her, but MSM no longer does that. It became something of a rebellion for me to vote for her in protest of the media’s refusal to tell us her policy views.
Well, I think Sarah is outie. The VF hit piece on her was perpetrated by Steve Schmidt, one of the prime movers and shakers in the GOP. She must have realized that she will not be allowed to run for President; her own Party will destroy her the way the Dems tried to destroy HRC.
As for voting for women, yes, I do advocate for it, but I recognize that we need more women in the pipeline so that our choices are better. I would like to see a voluntary quota system adopted by both Parties, since all the countries which have reached 30% and higher female representation have used quotas in order to do so. Of course, we’d have to get a lot more members in PUMA before we could have enough juice to make it happen. I hope we can get there!
I do think it’s very strange that people are so resistant to the idea of voting for women because they’re women. We’ve been voting on “issues” all of our lives. How’s that working out for us? 17% representation, no ERA, massive institutionalized misognyny, useless, co-opted “feminist” organizations who swooned over the Sexist-on-Chief and defended neither Hillary nor Sarah from the rampant woman-hating attacks on them, reproductive rights going by the wayside, a Presnit who wants to turn the US into The Handmaid’s Tale. Is that the result of our awesome electoral strategy?
I’m ready to try something different, personally.
Aren’t those “useless, co-opted “feminist” organizations who swooned over the Sexist-on-Chief and defended neither Hillary nor Sarah from the rampant woman-hating attacks on them” primarily women, too? So, what happens if they run? Phylis Schlafly? Michelle Malkin? Ann Coulter? We have to be careful about blanket endorsements based on identity. But, hey, maybe I should just board the train and only vote for black women. Condi? Get runnin’ girl.
A straw man argument, Cinie? That’s not like you.
What about my idea of getting more women in the pipeline? Or are you too busy constructing imaginary scenarios to think about actual possibiities for change?
It would be nice if people would have a bit more of an open mind before rejecting an idea out of hand for no good reason. And the quota system has worked very well in other countries. Why shouldn’t we try it? After all, we can hardly claim that our system is working well for women.
Open to what, MadamaB? I don’t think voting for people simply based on gender or skin color is a good idea. I don’t even see how that argument can be seriously put forth. Imagine if Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, et al., were advocating for black people to vote for any old black person running for anything because there aren’t enough of us in the system. Would you be open to that? Or would you be outraged and horrified? Or, is that just another straw man?
I’m sorry, I heard the same kind of arguments about voting for Obama. Yes we need more representative representation, but for the life of me, I can’t see that voting for people just because of their physical characteristics is the way to do it. What if everybody wanted their own quota? Or, is that a straw man too?
We should support qualified candidates who support our issues. I firmly believe that if black people and women had done that in last year’s Democratic primaries, Hillary Clinton would be president now. Easily.
And, how do you consider possibilities without imagining scenarios?
Well, my friend, the simple fact is that when women get to 30% or more representation in national legislatures, that is the only time that women’s issues get recognized and institutionalized misogyny begins to abate. Here is an article that shows this process happening in real time in Wales.
Women Transform Welsh Politics
Since increased representation is the only thing that works to make that happen, I am putting forth ideas that have also worked in other countries and proposing that we implement them here.
If you can find me fact-based studies that prove that institutionalized racism abates when more AA’s are put in national legislatures, then I would indeed support race-based voting and quotas as a strategy to make that increased representation happen. There are such studies with regard to women. That is why your argument is a total straw man, because there is no comparison WHATSOEVER to race-based voting in what I am saying. Somehow I doubt that people were quoting UN Studies while trying to convince you to vote for the black guy.
How does your argument change that the only way to advance womens’ rights is to elect more women, and so far, with our current system we can’t seem to make it happen? And in what universe did I say that women candidates would not be qualified? And yes, some bad women candidates will most likely run. The horror! Of course, no male candidates who are bad would ever run!
But of course, quota systems have only worked in 18 out of 22 countries that have met or exceeded that 30% number. Hey, let’s not even consider it, because what we’ve been doing in America has been working so well so far!
I know this is a radical idea and I expect to get pushback on it, but I do think it’s odd that people will use all kinds of criteria to decide whom they’re voting for, but seem very uncomfortable including gender in that criteria, or putting it at the top of the list.
I think it is very strange as well, madamab, that so many women are downright resolved not to vote for Sarah (or any other woman) just because she’s a woman. It seems as simple as breathing to me. It is a game of sheer numbers and percentages.
Because if I used that logic, I would have voted for and donated to, Obama. I could not. I supported the best person for the job, identity be damned. Who they are, and what they stand for, counts. I will never vote for someone just because they have brown skin, or a vagina. And, I don’t understand anyone who advocates doing so when it works for them, and against it when it doesn’t, with a straight face.
Happy 4th to you, too, Madrigal.
And, thank you. (hugs backatcha)
Happy Independence Day, PUMAs.
Just stopped by to say happy 4th of July, Cinnie.
Thanks for the thread!
Personally, I don’t think it is healthy “to march in lockstep with my anti-Obite sisters and brothers”….that is not what being a PUMA is about..
Independence of mind is the cornerstone of PUMA… so your well thought out reasoning & dissent is a good thing, it broadens the conversation & enriches the philosophical debate!
Personally I like Palin’s down-to-earth attitude & I completely oppose the misogyny directed at her (like Clinton) but I am like you in the fact that I do NOT vote based on race or gender. I vote for the MOST QUALIFIED PERSON. That person happened to be Hillary Clinton last election cycle (unfortunately, we could only vote for her in the California *primaries*)
Anyway, I enjoy your independent mind… just like I do the authors of other blogs of various political philosophy. Since I’m Independent I like to hear everything I can & make my decision afterwards. I don’t have allegiance based on party window dressing anymore & I will gravitate to anyone who seems to be on the track of fairness, merit, humanism, & authenticity (no matter where they call themselves conservative, liberal, or independent. Any party can set up a fast food politics chain but I will always ask, “Where’s the beef?” (no sexual double entendre pun intended) :-O
Anyway, you are a massively important voice & I love your in-depth Obama background research as well as !humor!.
Because of you, I now regularly use “wimpitude” and “pertendident”
Thanks for all your contributions, Cinnie, and keep truck’n lady!
Cyber hugs!
http://youhavetobethistalltogoonthisride.blogspot.com/2009/07/governor-sarah-palin-easiest-way-to-win.html
Sarah Palin is resigning as the Governor of Alaska. I know who is going to miss her the most, the left leaning Mainstream Media. Who will they use for a Punching Bag Now? No more PDS, Palin Derangement Syndrome, to try and bolster their lousy ratings, and dismal newspaper subscriptions . When many of her detractors, go on one of their many irrational rants, about the soon to be late Governor of Alaska. They can expect the response to be: So What, and Who Cares? Sarah Palin isn’t part of the Government anymore, she will be a private citizen.
That’s why I wish the Brenda Holloway song I linked to in the last line was embeddable.
Wow Cinie,
60 comments for Palin, she sure can draw folks in. I think the opposition is in real trouble now. Who will they blame for the current failures? No more PDS, Palins out, they used all the BDS juice up. Mark Sanford shot himself so he is out of serious contention, and he was trying to make himself the face of the tea party movement. I think things are just now getting interesting. How will the astroturfing MSM, distract and blame the Republicans? What Republicans LMAO! This would be a great time for a 3rd Party to form, who knows when the opportunity will present itself again. Meantime, when Shuster, Mitchell, Matthews, Olbermann start in with their rants about Palin. The easiest response by others will be, so what Sarah Palin isn’t Governor Of Alaska anymore who cares….and in the middle of the summer doldrums of all times to lose a Punching Bag
That’s gonna cause low ratings, to go even lower. No more highly visible targets to blame or distract……
“We all criticized Obama for doing much the same thing when elected to the Senate and did not fulfill his role there before announcing his decision a scant 18 months after being elected.”
And he won anyway!
Ok, I know this is a bit off topic and I don’t want to come across like I’m brown nosing or anything (goodness knows Cinie may one day write something that has me spewing my coffee and shouting “WTF is that Cinie thinking?!)
BUT….
Have you published anything or do you plan to? You’re an awesome writer, really.
Aww, thanks, True. Nah, never published, but hey, you never know.
As usual Cinie, your posts give me hope that rational thought still exists. Thank you!
As a PUMA I’ve come to Palin’s defense not because I agree with her politically but because of the vile and relentless attacks that both she and her children have been subjected to. No person of any party should have to endure abuse of such a personal nature that has absolutely nothing to do with their politics but instead gender, race, etc that have no place in civil discourse. And minor children of public figures should be sacrosanct.
Like you, I was never a fan of hers so I don’t understand a lot of the “mourning” going on with some of my fellow Pumas.
But like everyone else I know this is not the last we’ve heard of SP.
Cinie, I absolutely admire your work here and until now have not posted. I’ve questioned my own strong sense of approval toward Sarah and find it to be the combination of her guts and integrity. Guts, because she criticized Obama her first night out, and continued to do so. What a breath of fresh air from the nonstop praise he been receiving most everywhere else. That got my attention right away, for I could hope that the country had not entirely lost its first amendment rights after all. It took longer to verify her integrity, and she passes my intuition test. It was obvious to me that she had more going for her than either Bush II or Obama, so I gave her a ‘Pass’ on being ready to deal with the Presidency even though she was of course seeking to be Vice President. My opinion has nothing to do with her sex, and everything to do with her character, qualifications, and guts. I mention all this because I am active at PUMAPAC. There are varying degrees of candidates for office and varying degrees of PUMAs.
Thank you for your compliment, Pamela, I appreciated it. And while I certainly understand your position, I just don’t think those are reasons enough for me to vote for anybody. As I said somewhere a couple of days ago, this last election made me realize just how liberal I am. The idea of voting for somebody who is not, just doesn’t jibe with me. Not quite extreme right wing, disliking Obama, and/or being female is just not good enough.
But, hey, I’m used to getting punched in the gut for not taking the popular stance. “Vote for the brother ‘cuz black folks been shit on long enough,” and “vote for the sister ‘cuz women been shit on long enough,” no matter what they believe punches might be coming from different directions, but when they land, they feel remarkably the same.
Also, just to be clear, it was never my intention to single out PUMA Pac derisively. I just thought the post Murphy had up was representative of PUMAsphere-wide Palin support, moreso in the comments section than in the body of the post. I also linked to The Confluence, and probably could have flipped the links. The point was, and is, that my opinions are out of step with PUMAs, period, not PUMAs specific. Hope that makes sense.
Sorry, haven’t read the post yet, only got to the “[Obama's] predilection for proper name pronunciation”, and just have to pipe in: So how come he calls the German Kansler “Mörkel”? And the French President “Sar-CO-zy”?
That’s Kanzlerin to him.
I suspect that Palin is leaving for exactly the reasons she stated… She wants to write her book and travel around the country. She wants to get out from under the monthly lawsuit issues because it is just too expensive.
It might just be as simple as that.
And that just drives the press (and the blogosphere) nuts.
Speaking only from my experience, I have never seen this much free wheeling, outspoken misogyny in the media and political sphere in my adult life, since Carter. On the other hand, I’ve seen significant progress for women in professional environments, though I know we tend to focus on existing inequities there. Political representation for women in government and media lags much further behind imo. That may speak to the relative impacts of second and third wave feminist movements, or not. But I don’t know how Palin (much like Hillary) can be hung by the neck in effigy, have her children characterized as whores and campaign objects, have her personal life trashed and burned on the national stage with zero restraint, and have so little public outrage expressed by men and women alike. At a point, it is no longer only about issue politics, just as any equally blatant and violent racism savaged on a particular individual would be and should be condemned rather than celebrated. The sexism has been as viscious and ugly at times as any klan mob. Society should be acting collectively to extinguish it, but it has all been conveniently politicized. If that is not the “patriarchy” at work, then I clearly don’t get the fervent application of that term.
Yes, that’s what I was trying to express by humane vs. inhumane. The “Palin Retardation Platform” that was scrubbed at HuffPo is like a venture into Nazi-land. Whether or not anyone supports Sarah Palin, this bullsh*t should be completely unacceptable.
Yes. One of the things I hold onto is, despite the vilification, neither Hillary nor Palin projects “helpless victim” and still appear to be self-determining women given the special circumstances in their lives, personally and politically. They were both attacked yet they also garnered millions of votes and admirers.
However, I think the argument has to be re-framed. The people posting here who, like Palin, have a core set of values (whether liberal or conservative), try their best to live by them. The concern is that the boyz running the USA and other countries have NO values other than power and money and every viable female candidate who gets in the way will be neutralized. I’m more worried about humane vs. inhumane than I am about liberal vs. conservative. At this time I think we are all pawns in a political game that is out of control.
The larger concern, imo, AniEm, is that early Republican presidential candidates are being picked off like Ninja Barry swatting flies. Doesn’t it seem like there’s a coordinated effort afoot to totally neutralize the party and subsume it into one big Obacratic UniParty? The Democrats are no better with Hillary marginalized and Edwards discredited. Biden’s been allowed to be permanently minimized as a joke, so who’s left, left or right, to credibly challenge Obama’s power? I just can’t help but think that Obama’s favorite word is “distraction” for a reason.
You mean like Obama, king of the new world order. Yes, it’s crossed my mind and explains a lot. But I promise to look at your blog every day until it’s shut down, Cinie.
it IS quite curious how the potential R candidates are dropping like flies… my tin foil hat is vibrating.
Not sure there’s a lot of tinfoil involved, Coastie. Growing up in Chicago, Republicans were the loneliest 3 people on the planet since the Maytag Man. From what I understand, things haven’t changed much. Statewide, the Chicago Tribune’s John Kass calls the system of bipartisan corruption, the Illinois Combine. From what I can see, a lot of the new Obacracy is based on the Chicago/Illinois model. Remember, this is the guy who eliminates competition by challenging petition signatures and getting divorce records unsealed.
if you do not CARE about HATE CRIMES perpetrated against a woman for daring to speak out against this pretendident then wtf do you care about?? They set fire to her church, hounded her out of office , who knows what other threats she has received … Happy Fourth of NOT CARING JULY ..
I do not care if she chooses not to serve out her term as governor of Alaska. I do not care if she runs for president. I do care that she and her family have been subject to unwarranted, vicious and ultimately juvenile attacks. And to be perfectly honest, I’d care more if she chose to stand and fight the bastards. As far as your passionate defense, I’m curious as to where you’re coming from when Palin herself has not clearly articulated where she’s coming from, or where she’s going. Tea leaf readers have put forth everything from presidential candidate to talk show hostess to touring author to chair of the RNC. She says she wants to work to support other GOP candidates from outside the governor’s office. None of those possibilities sound like the choices of a helpless victim, however.
Cinie,
If she starts suing these media outlets for defamation, will they settle? I mean imagine if she didn’t settle, and these folks got exposed in open court? This is the latest from the F.B.I. about the blogs et al publishing that she is under investigation…uh NO she isn’t. So who wants to go first, now that Sarah Palin is going to be a free roamin private citizen?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-palin5-2009jul05,0,7018263.story
From Daily Beast
1. Palin Ramps Up War on Press
Just because Sarah Palin will soon no longer be governor doesn’t mean she won’t stop being a bully: “Gov. Sarah Palin’s attorney threatened Saturday to sue mainstream news organizations if they publish ‘defamatory’ stories relating to whether Palin is under federal investigation,” according to Politico. In a four-page letter, Alaska-based attorney Thomas Van Flein wrote, “This is to provide notice to Ms. Moore, and those who re-publish the defamation, such as Huffington Post, MSNBC, the New York Times and The Washington Post, that the Palins will not allow them to propagate defamatory material without answering to this in a court of law.
talk about snickerlious
I didn’t even think Hillary was the messiah, but I think I’ve witnessed the crucifixion and jeering of two exceptional female candidates. Liberal values have been killed, not only by the religious right, but by the new wing of the Democratic Party. These men have the same self-interest as the most loathsome conservative you can think of. If catering to islamofascism improves their bottom line, they’ll embrace Sharia in a heartbeat. The liberal vs conservative argument is circuitous and keeps the proles at the bottom at odds with each other while ransacking continues at the top.
What are Sarah Palin’s politics? Has she defined her position on the issues as being extreme or centrist? While her personal values have been raked over the coals, I do not see her politics well defined. If a leader cannot lead those who do not share all their personal values, they are nothing but a tyrant. So, I am holding off on my judgment of the political policies of Sarah Palin until they are more well defined. America needs REAL leadership and Sarah looks like a good candidate in that respect.
I believe the passionate defense of Sarah Palin from the Pumasphere is based on the outrageous misogyny that has been perpetrated against her that is so similar to what was done to Hillary Clinton. It is ugly and evil. The inclusion of women in business and politics is essential to the growth and prosperity of our nation and our society. We are half of the whole.
Here’s her wikipedia profile on issues:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Sarah_Palin
I’m a bit confused, though. Are you saying ill-defined political positions are assets in a leader?
It’s worth noting that her Republican supporters consider her to be pretty darned conservative. As of Jun 24, 09:
http://people-press.org/report/524/republican-favorability
Ugh! I don’t like Romney. I have seen the mess he left Massachusetts in with his healthcare program. It is in the red. He also fined people if they didn’t have healthcare….I think the fines were to cover the eventual mess it would be in. By the way I believe Romney is behind the Repugnants attacks on Palin not McCain’s camp.
carolflowery: Then I invite you to visit other blogs who are making that suggestion. The problem is in that attempting to voice another point of view is often met with derision and dismissal as if the commentator is somehow “wrong” if not in total agreement.
swanspirit: I am not trying to put words into your mouth. And I could not agree with you more that the personal attacks on Sarah Palin and her family were egregious, disgusting, and obscene.
My point is in reading other blogs there is certainly a sense that this is how she has been characterized. As the voice of the people, a righteous ally of women, a defender of gay rights, while seeming to set aside her actual positions in favor of her gender. That is far from critical thinking, IMHO. She does not represent the same liberal position that found us gathered together as Hillary supporters when we were forced to look elsewhere as a refuge last year. Her views are not compatible with what, at that time, was important to us.
As a woman she has every right to state her case and I have every right to reject it. I think the purpose of cinie’s post is that not everyone feels the same sense of outrage in her dropping out, or whatever it is she has done as it has not been made clear, and I happen to agree. If it is because of the personal attacks then that is disturbing and understandable.
And I am not attacking you but defending my own position. It is not meant to be taken personally simply because I have a different point of view. Sorry if you feel that way.
no pat, it actually is a stupid suggestion.
not one of sarah’s supporters are stupid enough to think a candidate is a savior, unlike the ones that supporter obama, the one
they dont live in a dellusional world like those koolaid drinkers
perhaps you should not worry about palin anymore and what the gop does, because you cant seem to talk without mentioning abortion and or bible thumping, you are living in the last century
Dont put words in my mouth PAT ………. At least SARAH HAS A VOICE … that is what the problem is after all….. and the attempted silencing of that voice by means of attacking her children and and her time in office with frivolous lawsuits n THIS ECONOMY with no speaking out against it even tho we are supposed to be post partisan HAHAHAHAHA
Sarah is no savior … but she is a very strong women who is willing to speak out
re read this as many times as it takes
and for those who do not know anything abut Bella Abzug other than ” she wore hats” I strongly fucking suggest you care enough to read about her
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bella_Abzug
Bella Abzug: How One Tough Broad from the Bronx Fought Jim Crow and Joe McCarthy, Pissed Off Jimmy Carter, Battled for the Rights of Women and Workers, … Planet, and Shook Up Politics Along the Way, authored by Suzanne Braun Levine and Mary Thom, published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2007, (ISBN 0374299528)
For those who are still hellbent on casting Sarah Palin into another “savior” candidate who will straighten out the “big guys” and lead us all into the land of peace and prosperity even though she is a right wing ideologue and bible thumping “liberal” to boot, I would ask if they would also eagerly support Mike Huckabee, who espouses and endorses the same? No big difference there in sharing the same point of view.
So now that Sarah may or may not be out of the running, why not turn all of the fervor and support onto Huckabee since he as a solid reinforcement of the same philosophy? Make sense?
Pat, Huckabee is an ordained pastor who enjoyed playing god with capital crime cases as Governor. Palin is a congregant in a small town community church. For all the fuss about her Christianity, I’ve yet to see an instance of her trying to convert, preach the bible, or impose a evangelical agenda on anyone in her political role. If Palin’s pastor had been half the wacko that Rev Wright is, she would have been slammed that much harder. The First Amendment rightly prescribes separation of church and state because the Amendment ensures freedom of religion in the first place. The separation clause would not be necessary otherwise. The excesses of evangelicals are all too plain in our society. But expecting our pols to be entirely secular in their own lives can be a kind of ideological crusade as well. And imho abortion or choice ought not be the first driver of our electoral politics and working government, especially if the issue serves to hold women back. For clarity sake, I am an exiled Democrat, not religious, and I’ve been firmly pro choice my whole life.
well, i believe with all my heart, this was the obama machine war tactic machine at work, and of course he will come out smelling like a lovely rose…rahm, axelrod, and all the boyz are toasting one another this weekend, we won. we got that bitch upset enough to quit didnt we…damned straight we did, we got hillary, the damned annie oakley bitch where we want her, and now we have this bitch where we want her. Let’s go to camp david and celebrate, now on to our next massive move to get all the money we can out of all these damned taxpayers so we can have everything we want. We won.
They dont know shit about anything, we do, we know everything just ask us. Hell, they even let us get timmy the tax cheater in, LOLOLO
hey, guys we can do anything now. Maybe we should visit alaska the day after she’s out of office since we’ve never been there before.
Hell, alaska only has 600,000, they are just a minor state a minority state when it comes to states huh/// what do they matter.
You can have Obama and all his lawyers including his wife and cronies from chicago, thugs at best. If you think they really care about this country you are living in a “koolaid house” yourself.
I am encouraged that someone would actually acknowledge that their time is being wasted fighting foolish allegations that dont cost the people pressing charges a dime, while she is in debt now, just like hillary ended up. It has been a constant barrage against this woman from day one. In the past month it’s been like an ambush from hell.
Hell, as far as using california for any example at this point is actually comical to me. Look at them, the IOU state that once was
the “gold rush” state, kinda funny when you think about it.
They should change their license plates out there to the
IOU state.
As far as im concerned, everyone is on their own. I dont give a shit if you are a minority a majority, gay or straight, prolife or prochoice, i dont give a flying fling of bird shit. When it becomes
just fine and dandy to trash people for working hard and being honest in this country, that is the day i dont give a shit about anyone anymore. Happy 4th of July and hope you enjoy the food you eat and family you love.
Hell, why should i care about anyone, let’s all be selfish and fuck everyone else, like the obamas do
Why is it “unacceptable” to criticize a candidate from either party of either sex without it appearing to be a “personal attack” against someone the other guy supports? The fact that I may not like a particular candidate that someone else does does not mean I “do not like” the person I disagree with.
Yet I have seen it time after time when even a slight variation from the echo chamber is introduced and the thread goes haywire as a result. Insults are thrown out, banishment is threatened, tag teams form, and a legitimate comment becomes toxic.
It becomes much too personal after awhile rather than the original intent of open discussion of points of view that may differ. Simply because someone views things from an opposite lens does not make them a “bad person” nor is it an attack against the individual who may disagree.
Well Pat, maybe because we have trust that it is never personal, but as Bill says politics is a contact sport. We all have our boundaries however.
oops I meant pro life , but does it matter …….
One thing we can probably all agree on is that she does inspire “emotion” when discussed, coming from one side or the other.
GODDAAM those unruly wimmins gettin out of line .. what the hell is wrong with them anyway … dont they know better than to stay in line …
and do you think she would have “decided for heself ” if she and her children were not attacked mercilessly and millions of dollars spent on her defense in frivolous lawsuits ?? Which other Governor has that going on.. Are we so accustomed to the political double and triple speak that we cannot hear what she said? She said that money is not going to teachers and other state employees . But wait she is pro choice… fuck her ..
You’re saying a lot of things that don’t add up. She didn’t say the attacks on her family were the reason she was resigning, she said the lawsuits, etc., that she’s had to defend are taking away from her work for the state. That’s pretty much par for the course, or, are stories about Sanford, Ensign, Edwards’, etc., affairs being leaked through hacked emails and anonymous sources just because they’re men? As soon as she stepped upon the big stage they were gonna start going through her trash. That’s different than trashing her personal decisions as a woman and mother and making crass, cruel jokes at her children’s expense. That’s way out of line. As far as I know, nobody’s sued her about her kids.
She didn’t cite it as the reason. I’m guessing every Governor has a decent umbrella insurance policy to cover them for these legal bills and they won’t actually have to take much, if anything, out of pocket. But, until the insurance pays, those bills can be intimidating to the person. Still, I would leave a position rather than be bogged down in the process of defense for things I didn’t do.
I’m guessing you’ve never campaigned, been elected and then entrusted with a duty to serve the people of a state. Bailing on that seems a bit different than quitting the average day job.
What better place to be on the 4th of July than Cinie’s blog, a gathering of the most truthful political minds on the web? There is a poster at TNA who advocated voting ONLY for women and I understand that as a political strategy, as well as AA support for Obama. Personally, however, I could not vote for either Ann Coulter or Cynthia McKinney because they happen to be women.
Meanwhile, I think Swanspirit may be reacting to the tactics used against both Clinton and Palin in the past two years. Disagreeing with Palin’s politics is one thing; ridiculing her Down’s Syndrome baby crosses the line into hate-crime. Both Clinton and Palin (and their supporters) were subjected to tactics akin to burning women at the stake, stoning women (the abstract version of Sharia Law), gang-bang, and McCarthyism. I think the effects of that on some of us are emotionally-laden and long lasting. I can’t support either political party at this point.
3W: The strength of her “base” so far is the Religious Right. That cannot be discounted. The same group who would limit or abolish altogether a woman’s right to choose. The same group who would deny gays the right to marry. The same group who does not see “equality” for all as a reason to include into their platform year after year. In maintaining that base of support, she has willingly bought into their politics and IMHO this is not an “overstatement”.
I personally do not see Obama as having any hardcore “religious beliefs” but he has aligned himself with the Faith Based Initiative groups for the usual purpose of “pandering”. Hers is much more ingrained. In order to take the plunge, she is more reliant on their support and I firmly believe that she is sincere in her application in upholding those principles.
I know you’re right in this analysis, but the difference between the two of them, IMO, is this: Palin demonstrated she would obey the law, signing off on benefits for same-sex couples, e.g. even if she disagrees with it. There’s no question in my mind that Obama would circumvent the law to serve his own purposes.
Wasn’t that the same excuse Obie used on DOMA?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/12/obama-defends-antigay-def_n_214764.html
Pat, I disagree completely that “The strength of her “base” so far is the Religious Right.” My observation is that the strength of her base is people who are sick of both parties and want an honest, hard-working, down-to-earth, leader.
You nailed it. I don’t support Palin just because she is a woman it is because I am sick and tired of both parties. Palin is a middle class person like the rest of us. She lived without health insurance at one point in her marriage to Todd. Where is there any evidence anyone in DC has had to live without anything?
I truly support Palin because she has a fire in her belly. We have not seen the last of her.
I have been “supporting” the women of Independent Music with GODDESS RADIO at my own radio station
http://www.cygnusradio.com and other stations ..
for about seven years now, and I support them no matter what genre of music , no matter what their point of view on the world , and as long as they have music worth hearing they are all goddesses, and get heard .
. There are enough people in the world who don’t care about “black issues” because they are not black , or gay issues because they are not gay . or womens issues because they are not women . I do not need women with spines, I have my own thank you .. and my aunt Susie worked for Bella Abzug in the years before people ever heard the phrase male chauvinist pig , or knew what it meant , or the significance . So , if you don’t “care” what happens to women because they don’t share your particular point of view …hey that is your business …
You’re out of line here, Swanspirit. I don’t care if Sarah Palin decides for herself to quit her job. I would not vote for her just because assholes pick on her and her family. I do not think it’s right for them to do so, and have said so. I think she’s a smart capable candidate, if she chooses to be. That does not mean I have to be her cheerleader, or join her campaign.
If she did resign her position as governor with 17 months to go before her term ends, why should that be considered a “plus” in that column? She ran for office for that position, garnered the votes, received some pretty high ratings, than decides to chuck it all in favor of her own political future without regard to her constituents? How does that square with some degree of integrity? Seems to me that it is a little misplaced if her own ambitions replace the needs of the state who found reason to elect her into office.
The pundits can spin this anyway they wish, but if she is merely walking away just to pursue a higher office and fulfill her own ambitions after only two years service this does not speak well for her overall.
We all criticized Obama for doing much the same thing when elected to the Senate and did not fulfill his role there before announcing his decision a scant 18 months after being elected.
If this is truly her overriding goal I am less impressed than ever.
Pat, I can’t see how resignation gives her a platform now. Obama quit to campaign for an upcoming election. Certainly not defending him, but it is different from Palin’s current situation.
Dunno. Alaska has 600k people. That’s fewer people than the average size Congressional District in CA. If a high profile CA District Rep resigned early from Congress to prep a Potus run, not sure anyone would be surprised or concerned. Arnold held no previous public office before running for CA Gov, and you know he would have run for national office if he could have. A former body builder for office, no problem. But a former beauty queen, all kinds of problems. There is a bias against Palin as a politician, and it is difficult to separate that bias from her life and status as a woman, imo. If it’s about her intelligence, I need to be persuaded that Arnold is smarter than her.
But, Three Wickets, we’re ascribing motives for Palin she herself hasn’t claimed. She just quit, she didn’t say she was running for, or from anything. And, I’m not sure how we got from Obama/black, Palin/woman to Ahnold/stupid.
The moral equivalency test applies, at least as it relates to the media, and maybe more. Palin was savaged in the media because of her gender and her family. Obama was not attacked in the media for his race. He was carried to victory in large measure because of his race. As far as governing policy goes, I don’t see a big difference between Obama and Palin in what they have actually done in their respective offices. Again, the media labeled Obama as being more left and Palin as being more right because it was easier to sell. Ultimately, Palin needs more experience if she is to be a viable candidate for Potus for any party, same as Obama did. But she has more going for her than her gender as a politician. She has an ability to inspire and tap into an electoral nerve, which to be honest Obama has as well. Religious and right wing policy characterizations of her are overstated imo. The likes of Naomi Wolf would argue that Palin is a detriment to feminism and the cause of women in general, and they would be making the same old case for membership-only elitism that pervades our patriarchies in government and industry today.
Media aside, neither race, nor gender, is enough reason alone to vote for anyone, imo. Nor is misogyny and sexism to be tolerated in any form. I just fail to see how any of that equates to overriding support for anybody as a political candidate.
I disagree. American has a two party system that is for all intents a one party system: the Corporate Party. I will never get a chance to vote for a liberal Democrat for President. It just ain’t gonna happen. And since I live in Virginia, I’ll never get the chance to vote for a liberal for Governor, Senator or even Congressman. So what are my options? I can vote Gynocrat or I can vote Green. If there’s a woman on the ballot, I’ll vote for her because I believe that women need to be equally represented in state and national offices. I truly believe that we need more women in office if we are going to see any real progress. And, if there’s no woman on the ballot (highly likely in Virginia) then I’ll vote Green.
Honestly, I think there needs to be a “No Incumbents 2010″ movement. We really should throw all the bums out.
I think you nailed it! I am sure she is not a religious fanatic or an anti gay person. The religious crowd wants to see that in her but they are not seeing through her. She is more of an independent and modern woman. She walks her own road and does not care what the pundits or her own party thinks of her. She has the charisma and the simplicity to pull in big crowds and followers. Palin is now going to taunt her way, write her book and laugh at the pundits who follow her steps and keep her in the news! I think she is playing them and they bite her hook all the time. She is unpredictable and they can’t stand that, they like the security of a pattern and Palin has no pattern.
I will follow and monitor her moves but I have a feeling she will succeed in whatever it is that she wants. She might have acted like a quitter but she is no quitter. She has big ambitions and she is a very strong and energetic woman. People who are into sports as she is, never quit, they usually reach all their goals. I wish her the best!
She’s a problem solver. She sees a need and applies solid skills to address it. When the ethics hassles caused by those who had a problem with HER, became HER problem, she solved it. In the bigger picture, she’s the Governor. She occupied an Office in which the power of the people is vested in their AGENT. Her personal power is independent of the Agency. That’s what arouses the opposition. Her personal power goes with her, she CASTLES the Agency Power, to a teammate who can wrap it up. She proceeds on her Maverick Agenda, remaining an unknown. For all the Opposition’s urgent demands for Change, they’re sure uncomfortable with someone who makes it happen.
You have a vivid imagination. You can’t spin quitting into anything but that.
Finally, a blog about Sarah Palin without all the “oh, what are we going to do” whine. A lot of these so-called “feminist” just can’t seem to get a grip if they don’t have a powerful woman to follow.
Maybe I’m wired different or something but I don’t see any of the “she’s a quitter” going on. Sure she resigned from her position as Governor but she made it plain that she has works in the fire. Sounds to me like Ms. Sarah is going after bear and I don’t mean the woodsy kind. She can do that now because she doesn’t have to spend all her time defending who she and her family are. I expect to see some serious splash from her very soon now that the fetters are off. I just say “good for her”. And, for those who feel all lost and betrayed because she quit…..use your own spine instead of depending on someone elses.
Cinie: I am with you regarding a “raw deal” from the press who viciously attacked her personal life and family. Totally unnecessary.
She is a right wing ideologue, suffused with a religious fervor, that is as diametrically different from the liberal left as one can be. The issue for me is that some are unwilling or unable to separate that from her gender alone and this poses a problem from my perspective.
It will be interesting to discover over time the actual reason for her resignation. Right now she is being perceived from one end of the spectrum as unethical quitter or a martyr. The truth lies somewhere in between.
Pat, you wrote: “She is a right wing ideologue, suffused with a religious fervor, that is as diametrically different from the liberal left as one can be.” I need hard evidence of this, please. I am BEGGING for it, but have yet to see anyone provide it. I need to see how her GOVERNING displays this “right wing ideology” and “religious fervor.” Until I see that evidence, I’m not buying it. Sounds like the MSM to me.
I didn’t see it either. When asked about the Assembly of God Church in her town, and why she didn’t belong there, Palin made an interesting remark to the effect of ‘it was too radical for her.’
As a kid who had been forcibly converted from Catholic to Pentecost, I felt immediately the impact of her remark. And the Assembly of God Church we went to was one of the less radical ones I had attended. To me it highlighted that although Palin was religious, and I did not agree with her moral opinions, she is not a radical ! She’s just a religious person. Perhaps this is why she has been able to have a close lesbian friend for years and nominated a pro-choice state supreme court justice after the election.
This statement is why I began looking more closely at Sarah the person, and not the MSM characterization.
Personally, I think she’s working on the book since this seems to be a prerequisite for political legitimacy these days.
The only religious zealot reporting I recall is the one where she actually belonged to a church that practiced witchcraft. With reporting like that, and claims of such ridiculous nature, it’s easy to see where people opted to think those outlandish tales were covering up a truth that even democrats could vote for.
This is what the Chicago Tribune wrote about her religion at the time…
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-palin-religion_06sep06,0,3371419.story
…and this is a Time Magazine profile.
http://christianity.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=christianity&cdn=religion&tm=58&f=00&tt=11&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.time.com/time/politics/article/0%2C8599%2C1837918%2C00.html
Pat, I love you, but Palin is not suffused with a religious fervor — that is a meme created by the msm.
I think SwanSpirit has a hangover, but I only just read your post from yesterday. There’s a lot there that I wish I’d seen it yesterday. But I was particularly taken by your observation that the womens’ movement was seen by Blacks as a white womens’ movement. The women’s movement of the 60s and 70s coincided with the civil rights movement. To some extent they competed with each other. I was big into the Black Power thing but the womens’ rights thing did not strike a chord with me, for exactly that reason. I’m old enough to remember the early movers and shakers in the womens’ rights movement here in NYC like Bella Abzug and Betty Friedan. Abzug just seemed like a woman in crazy hats and Friedan, well I can’t tell you a thing about her.
I also remember the resentment in the black community when after years of struggling for “our” rights and being on the front lines, other minorities suddenly realized they were in a similar position. Then rights fought for by Blacks becames rights for “minorities”. Many Blacks asked themselves where were these people when we were getting beat up? Then (white) women realized that they were a minority and these rights were extended not just to blacks but to “minorities and women”.
Many Blacks feel that white women were then put ahead of blacks in the pecking order. Then pecking order was then: white men, white women, black women then black men. Given this history, many black women of a certain age, just don’t and can’t see themselves as part of a feminist movement.
When Shirley Chisholm ran for president, she said that she thought that being a woman was a greater obstacle than being black. I have a 20 year old daughter, who thinks that men and women (of whatever race) are more or less equal. She doesn’t however, think that blacks and whites are equal. I don’t know if her view is typical of women of her age, but if it is, then what are the options of groups like NOW?
Joanie, first you gotta have the discussion. I posted the black women as maids clips in the other post because, not too long ago, “day work” was what young black women were trained by their mothers to “have something to fall back on,” while stenography was a career goal. That dynamic naturally put black women in subservient positions, as it does any woman of any ethnicity working for anyone in that capacity. However, the truth is, black women worked for white women, not the other way around. Looking at the history of NOW, whose only black president complained about the lack of diversity, ya gotta wonder if that subconscious residual mindset still plays a role. Nobody wants to accuse anybody, or be accused, of being racist. But, you’ve gotta have the discussion as to why so many minority women have felt for so long that the feminist movement on the whole does not embrace them, or reflect their needs.
Exactly, nobody wants to have the discussion about the fact that we lived separate lives along side each other for a long time. But things have changed a lot and we can all celebrate that on this the 233rd anniversary of our independence.
My daughter’s best friend in middle school was a white, Jewish kid. I don’t know what was the basis for their friendsip. They hung out together outside of school hours. I was sure once the kid’s parents became aware that their daughter was hanging around with a black kid, they would put an end to it. But they didn’t. My daughter participated in her Bat mitzvah and she came to our house during the christmas holidays. They stayed friends throughout junior high school and part of high school (they attended different high schools) then the relationship died a natural death. So I’m very hopeful. Happy 4th!
I am in total agreement. It makes her supporters feel good to cast the entire finger of blame against the press itself without considering for a moment that basically she is just another lightweight candidate, plucked from nowhere last year, and whose own lack of preparation got in her way as well. The press was vicious regarding her personal life but there was good reason to question her positions without having those defenders leap off the page and denounce the criticism as “sexist”. One could make the point that in not supporting Obama, and being labeled a “racist”, was equally egregious in return.
She was a “Hillary stand-in” for those who saw misogyny in every criticism of her statements and positions and it bothered me that her stand against abortion and gay marriage rights were getting a “free pass” from those who declared their undying support and wishful thinking when they would openly declare financial backing and would most assuredly vote for her in the future without question. It was acceptable to slam Obama for feeling the same way yet somehow her same positions in these policies were deemed appropriate. It became difficult to sort out the reasoning for some of this doubletalk without coming to the conclusion that this support was based more on the emotional level than it did any concrete reasoning. She was “female” therefore she was off limits to any reasonable discussion of just where she stood as far as policies were concerned which made this total acceptance nothing different from the AA community who viewed Obama through the same uncritical lens.
Appalling as some of the coverage was regarding her personal life, there were many other political issues that she maintained which should have raised doubts about her ability to lead. Holding everybody and everything else responsible for her decision to resign at this time is refusing to consider the candidate from a more objective review.
Pat, I’m not so sure she wasn’t, or isn’t “ready for primetime.” I think that’s an unfair slam, designed to diminish her as a “bimbo” like we discussed earlier. She’s gotten a raw deal, but, that doesn’t make me want to vote for her.
Sadly, the media minimized what we learned about her stand on policies by dominating the news with making how much the McCain camp spent on her clothes the biggest story. The voters never did get a really clear outline of how any of the candidates stood on policy simply because then they would have had to explain Obama’s agenda.
yes I did read it , but you said um you didnt CARE ..where is the concern … for a media that savages children with impunity , because their mother has policies with which you do not agree?
I not only do not blame her, of course I do not blame her but I have some future orientation as well … I anticipate that savaging a politicians child will now be common practice if they are the opposition ? Or is Sarah just singled out for scapegoating because she actually has greater starpower that the pretendident allmighty?
Who’s blaming her? Why the over-the-top attack on me? I have never disparaged Sarah Palin, but, I’m not going to pretend to be her staunchest supporter, either. No, her children should not be demeaned in any way, none of them. Never. Yes, she’s been treated unfairly. But, if you’re waiting for me to mount a white horse and beat the crap out of all the assholes engaged in those attacks single-handedly, you’re just gonna have to be mad.
WHAT OTHER CHILD?? whose CHILD /CHILDREN are the mother fucking target of the goddamm savage media and the media and the media manages that with total impunity ?? Where are the parents of any other children and why are they not speaking out ?? This is like watching a stoning .. and I dont care that you don’t care , or that she scooped you , yeah how dare she …because what does it matter that one of the most popular strong women in the world is hounded out of office by frivolous lawsuits and attacking her family , including a down syndrome baby ? After all, who cares ???
Whoa! Did you actually read what I wrote, or were you just predisposed to go off?
I’m not sure where we disagree, Joanie. I was talking about PUMAs who actively support Palin as a viable presidential candidate, for whom they will not only vote, but campaign.
I’m thinking many are like me…she looked like a better choice than Obama. I figured he was going to mess up enough to be a one-term, which would then blow up any chances of another Democratic administration for decades to come. Was willing to give McCain/Palin a one term (didn’t think they could be worse) and hope for a good candidate from the D’s in 2012.
You took the words right out of my mouth! After supporting Hillary (not because she’s a woman, but because she was the best candidate running!), I decided that McCain would be a fair president for one term, and hopefully we’d get somebody better to choose in 2012. I knew they couldn’t be worse than Obama. I do think Sarah Palin has potential – perhaps the old saying “whatever doesn’t kill you will make you stronger” will apply to her – look at Hillary. Would she have been the person she is today without all the BS she’s had to deal with over the years? The only good thing about this election is that the mask has been ripped from the face of the Democratic Party – now we can see that they can be as bad as the Republicans – or worse in my opinion, because we expected better. Too bad so many are still blind to it.
Thanks for Tavares, I love those brothers (favorite Tavares song: Hard Core Poetry). But I have to disagree with you. One can support someone’s right to run, and defend them against unfair attacks without voting for them. Many PUMAs are making that distinction. From what little I know of Palin (her policies really aren’t discussed much), I probably wouldn’t vote for her again. McCain got my vote, but it was a protest vote against BHO. Many Blacks voted for BHO without a clue about his position on any issue. That’s just wrong. I’m having arguments,even now, about how like Bush he’s turned out to be. But most of the people I talk with aren’t even aware of many of the moves he’s made so far. They don’t care!!! They’re in sublime ignorance about the first black president. That’s just crazy.
I think the resignation was a bad move, I don’t think there’s a scandal brewing and I don’t thnk she’s done in politics either. I’m thinking she’s got her eye on a senate run in 2010 and the presidency in 2016. In the meantime, she’ll solidify and try to expand her base, raise money for her pac, build her knowledge in policy areas where she’s weak, make some money from her book and giving speeches, spend time with her family and chill. Sounds good to me.
I agree with the last part of your comment. I would add one thing, she resigned for the good of Alaska…the frivolous ethics charges cost her a ton of money as it did the people of Alaska. It was a distraction. She was no longer able to move Alaska’s agenda forward because the White House gave the Dems in her state their marching orders….don’t work with her destroy her.